EFI conversion

Dedicated to owners of Citroen GS and GSA models.

Moderator: RichardW

Raul
Posts: 89
Joined: 05 May 2012, 05:37
Location: Estonia
My Cars:

EFI conversion

Post by Raul » 08 Jan 2018, 19:42

Hi

Anyone here who has done it or considering it in the future?
0x
Citroen gsa 1299 , 1982
Citroen gs 1,2 pallas 1977
Citroen xantia 1,9 td estate 1996
Citroen Xantia 2.0 hdi 90 2000

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 41541
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: North Bucks
My Cars: Sally the white Saxo, Jodie the white Ka (AKA the Dagenham Dustbin), Pixie the Sliver Pixo, a Giant TCR Bike, Giant TCR Pro Bike and a Giant gravel/adventure bike.
x 944

Re: EFI conversion

Post by CitroJim » 09 Jan 2018, 08:57

Raul wrote:
08 Jan 2018, 19:42
Hi

Anyone here who has done it or considering it in the future?


On what precisely?
0x
Jim

Founder and only member of the Ford Ka Preservation Society...

Please feel free to follow me on Facebook and Strava :)

Raul
Posts: 89
Joined: 05 May 2012, 05:37
Location: Estonia
My Cars:

Re: EFI conversion

Post by Raul » 09 Jan 2018, 10:07

On citroen gs/a . There are some old youtube videos of the cars that have been converted but a link to the step by step build thread would be excellent.
0x
Citroen gsa 1299 , 1982
Citroen gs 1,2 pallas 1977
Citroen xantia 1,9 td estate 1996
Citroen Xantia 2.0 hdi 90 2000

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 41541
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: North Bucks
My Cars: Sally the white Saxo, Jodie the white Ka (AKA the Dagenham Dustbin), Pixie the Sliver Pixo, a Giant TCR Bike, Giant TCR Pro Bike and a Giant gravel/adventure bike.
x 944

Re: EFI conversion

Post by CitroJim » 09 Jan 2018, 10:44

Gosh! Converting a GS/A to EFI sounds to me like a big project indeed...

These days I guess Megasquirt would be the way to go...
0x
Jim

Founder and only member of the Ford Ka Preservation Society...

Please feel free to follow me on Facebook and Strava :)

User avatar
Michel
Posts: 1085
Joined: 29 May 2017, 13:50
Location: Reading
My Cars: 2007 Renault Megane Scenic 1.6 VVti Auto
2008 Peugeot 107 5-door
2002 Suzuki SV650S in bright yellow. The Flying Banana.
x 205

Re: EFI conversion

Post by Michel » 09 Jan 2018, 10:54

CitroJim wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 10:44
Gosh! Converting a GS/A to EFI sounds to me like a big project indeed...

These days I guess Megasquirt would be the way to go...


Looked into this for the DRK with a megasquirt .Not too bad or expensive to do both fully electronic ignition and fuel injection. The theory for the GS would be the same, though siting the injectors and supply to them would be interesting. Plenty of other flat-fours with injection though.

Could get rid of the awful dizzy too..
0x
I'd rather push a Suzuki than ride a Harley

Raul
Posts: 89
Joined: 05 May 2012, 05:37
Location: Estonia
My Cars:

Re: EFI conversion

Post by Raul » 09 Jan 2018, 20:01

I found a thread about vw beetle:
https://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtop ... =4&t=27984
Quote from there:
"I'm in the process of making up a kit to cost effectively convert any type 1 air cooled vw engine to EFI without having to cut or physically modify anything.

Here's the basic idea...
Use the original vw intake manifold, bolt on a throttle body with internal injector, use the original 6mm fuel line and a Mexican beetle fuel pump..."

Basically using the same idea shouldnt it be pretty easy? I am a complete newbie on petrol cars and efi-s so maybe I am strongly underestimating the complexity of that kind of project.
0x
Citroen gsa 1299 , 1982
Citroen gs 1,2 pallas 1977
Citroen xantia 1,9 td estate 1996
Citroen Xantia 2.0 hdi 90 2000

User avatar
xantia_v6
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 5185
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 23:03
Location: Beaune, France
My Cars: -
1997 Citroen Xantia V6 (France)
1999 Citroen XM V6 ES9 (France)
2011 Peugeot 308 CC THP 155 (NZ)
1975 Jaguar XJ-S pre-HE (NZ)
x 170

Re: EFI conversion

Post by xantia_v6 » 09 Jan 2018, 21:48

I did quite a bit of research on EFI conversions a few years ago, but am not familiar with the GSA configuration.

A few points (many of which I am sure you already know):
  • A multipoint system will usually give slightly better starting and running performance than a single point.
  • You can get injector bosses to weld into the manifold tubes, the injectors should be pointing at the back of the inlet valves.
  • You will need to mount a suitable throttle body (perhaps with integral TPS and idle control valve).
  • Any manifold preheating system should be removed.
  • You need a high pressure fuel pump and recirculating fuel system. The pump should be mounted near the tank and no higher than the bottom of the tank. There must be a suitable fuel filter after the pump, and no filter before it.
  • You should fit an inertia cut-off safety switch.
  • Any rubber hoses downstream of the pump (including return hoses) need to be replaced with material rated for EFI pressure.
  • You need to mount a timing wheel and pickup sensor on the crankshaft, or possibly camshaft, this must be mechanically sturdy.
  • You will need to mount an additional engine temperature sensor (not sure where it would go on this engine).
  • You would need to fit a manifold pressure sensor (MAP), unless integrated into the ECU.
  • You will need to mount a 4 cylinder coil block (or 2 double ended coils).
  • Most people fit an oxygen sensor to aid tuning and provide closed loop fuelling operation.
All of those tasks are pretty much mechanical and self evident. Tuning the system is rather more difficult unless someone has already devised maps for a similar engine using similar components. If tuning from scratch you really need time on a rolling road, I have read of people doing it by trial and error on the road, but there would be lots of scope for getting it wrong, and the possibility of damaging the engine with pre-ignition caused by inappropriate fuelling or timing.
0x

User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 2451
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
Location: Sayalonga, Malaga, Spain
My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD hatch, 2003 RAV4.2 D4D
previously 1989 BX19RD, ZX 1.9D auto, Xantia 1.8i auto
x 283

Re: EFI conversion

Post by white exec » 09 Jan 2018, 22:26

Am really no expert on this, but I would guess there could be issues with emissions testing.
If OE fitment (eg carburettor), then you could be exempt from later/latest requirements.
If significantly modified, then you might have to meet more recent emissions figures, which could be difficult.

The only way I'd do this was if there were a "bolt-on" EFI option from later vehicles which used the same engine. I'm thinking eg Rover V8 here: originally twin carbs, later an EFI manifold and kit.

Contactless electronic ignition should be easy. Might be worth doing that first, as it will contribute a lot to starting, combustion and low-speed running.
0x
Chris

User avatar
Michel
Posts: 1085
Joined: 29 May 2017, 13:50
Location: Reading
My Cars: 2007 Renault Megane Scenic 1.6 VVti Auto
2008 Peugeot 107 5-door
2002 Suzuki SV650S in bright yellow. The Flying Banana.
x 205

Re: EFI conversion

Post by Michel » 09 Jan 2018, 23:00

http://www.megasquirtuk.co.uk/

You'll need the hardware, as listed by XantiaV6, but the actual ECU and programming/mapping isn't that hard to do with modern kits. You'd be able to run the Ford EDIS ignition system on a GSA 4 pot too, which takes away a lot of the hassle. You'd need to use 1 injector per cylinder on a GS. Getting hold of secondhand manifolds and modifying them is the way to to this.

There's been plenty on the TV on various classic car shows about the advantages (many) and disadvantages (very few) of fitting EFI to classic cars - lower emissions, better economy, better performance and driveability etc..
0x
I'd rather push a Suzuki than ride a Harley

User avatar
xantia_v6
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 5185
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 23:03
Location: Beaune, France
My Cars: -
1997 Citroen Xantia V6 (France)
1999 Citroen XM V6 ES9 (France)
2011 Peugeot 308 CC THP 155 (NZ)
1975 Jaguar XJ-S pre-HE (NZ)
x 170

Re: EFI conversion

Post by xantia_v6 » 09 Jan 2018, 23:44

I converted my 1972 E-type to EFI and UK MOT testers never batted an eyelid, nor did they ever actually perform an emissions test.
0x

User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 2451
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
Location: Sayalonga, Malaga, Spain
My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD hatch, 2003 RAV4.2 D4D
previously 1989 BX19RD, ZX 1.9D auto, Xantia 1.8i auto
x 283

Re: EFI conversion

Post by white exec » 10 Jan 2018, 11:04

xantia_v6 wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 23:44
I converted my 1972 E-type to EFI and UK MOT testers never batted an eyelid, nor did they ever actually perform an emissions test.
It was probably so well done that they thought it was OE!
How many testers bother to check factory spec for a car, unless there's a glaring issue, or it's a first matriculation/re-registration inspection? Even then...
0x
Chris

Raul
Posts: 89
Joined: 05 May 2012, 05:37
Location: Estonia
My Cars:

Re: EFI conversion

Post by Raul » 10 Jan 2018, 19:29

I found a link to the multi point injection conversion.
http://eddinsmoto.com/id131.htm
0x
Citroen gsa 1299 , 1982
Citroen gs 1,2 pallas 1977
Citroen xantia 1,9 td estate 1996
Citroen Xantia 2.0 hdi 90 2000

sonoramicommando
Posts: 333
Joined: 07 Sep 2011, 11:03
Location: Nouvelle-Zélande
My Cars: GSA & C6
x 4

Re: EFI conversion

Post by sonoramicommando » 11 Jan 2018, 09:56

Raul wrote:
10 Jan 2018, 19:29
I found a link to the multi point injection conversion.
http://eddinsmoto.com/id131.htm

Looks like this guy went out of his way to do things the hard way - but that's fine as he has the means to do all the fabrication work himself, which means it didn't cost a lot of money and time.
The question is, do you have all the resources and the knowledge he has at his disposal...
Like others mentioned, most people go for megasquirt as a universal ready made solution, so that's your best bet - I think there are a few Fiat twin cam folks who have done that (having said that, Fiat 124s are pretty popular and numerous in the US).
0x
2006 C6 Exclusive 2.7HDi
1982 GSA Pallas
A couple of bikes
A boyracer car ;)

wurlycorner
Posts: 1371
Joined: 30 Oct 2012, 23:37
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
My Cars: Lots of CXs...
A couple of Xantia...
Lots of Prelude's...
And a Sunny.
x 44

Re: EFI conversion

Post by wurlycorner » 12 Jan 2018, 12:54

white exec wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 22:26
Am really no expert on this, but I would guess there could be issues with emissions testing.
If OE fitment (eg carburettor), then you could be exempt from later/latest requirements.
If significantly modified, then you might have to meet more recent emissions figures, which could be difficult.


The emissions requirements are done purely on model build year, here (unless you've swapped the engine to one from a different model year and declared it/the MOT tester realises it).

There are plenty of carb classics out there that have had EFI mods done (single point being the most common/simplest). Has no effect on emissions test requirements.
0x
--
Iain.

2x '85 CX GTi Turbo s1 (metallic blue and green)
2x '85 CX GTi Turbo s2 t1 (metallic silver and grey)
'88 CX GTi Turbo s2 T2 (metallic light blue)
CX DTR T2 Safari (silver)
2x '96 Xantia Activa (Black and Metallic Green)
'01 C5 2.0 HDi LX Estate (Blue)

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 7559
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
Location: North Lanarkshire, UK
My Cars:
x 153

Re: EFI conversion

Post by Mandrake » 12 Jan 2018, 13:20

Why just convert to fuel injection, why not turbo charge as well! :rofl2:

https://www.youtube.com/user/emknapss/videos

120hp he claims from the dyno run, eg double the original factory horsepower.

Makes a bit of a difference to the acceleration:















Yes, it is a mad Kiwi behind those videos and I don't condone his driving... :twisted:

Great sounding engine with a noisy exhaust fitted I have to say. :-D

Wonder what happened to that car as these videos are over 10 years old now...
2x
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver

1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive